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非中国人/日本人怎么看待南京大屠杀?

What do non-Chinese/Japanese people think of the Nanjing Massacre?

龙腾网/Q__Q 2018-08-15 17:29:39 非中国人日本人看待
105478 18 7

在很长时段内,日本人的道歉并不真诚。部分原因是民众被避免知晓二战中他们所犯的暴行,甚至被唆使将自己视作为二战的受害者。有时候,这种否认太过离谱了,甚至有些日本人指责说,对日本二战暴行的报道其实是美国为了掩盖自己战争罪行......

非中国人/日本人怎么看待南京大屠杀?

正文翻译

What do non-Chinese/Japanese people think of the Nanjing Massacre?

非中国人/日本人怎么看待南京大屠杀?

评论翻译

Kelly La Rue, Veteran, small business owner, Master Electrician

Kelly La Rue,老兵,小企业主,高级电工

Warning! I have included some stomach churning photographs.

The Nanking Massacre was not an anomaly. It was standard wartime behavior for the Japanese army in WWII. An entire civilization had gone mad.

I look upon their behavior with teeth clenching horror.

警告!以下内容包含某些反胃的图片。

南京大屠杀并不是一个异常现象,而是二战时期日本军人普遍的战时行为。当时整个日本都陷入癫狂之中。

看到日本军人的行径,我恐惧得颤抖不已。

Here is a list of countries invaded, conquered, or occupied by Japan before or during WWII:

China

Soviet unx

Mongolia

Vietnam

Cambodia

Laos

United States

Malaysia (UK)

Singapore

Hong Kong (UK)

Dutch East Indies (Indonesia)

Timor (Portugal)

Australia by sea

New Zealand by sea

Burma (Myanmar )

India

British New Guinea (Papua)

The Philippines

Andaman and Nicobar Islands (India)

Straits Settlements (Singapore)

Brunei (UK)

Nauru (Australia)

Guam (USA)

Imphal (India)

Wake Island (USA)

Gilbert and Ellice Islands (UK)

Christmas island (Australia)

Manchuria

Taiwan

Korea

http://www.japan-talk.com/jt/new...

非中国人/日本人怎么看待南京大屠杀?

以下是在二战前或二战期间被日本侵略、征服或占领的国家名单:

1.中国

2.苏联

3.蒙古

4.越南

5.柬埔寨

6.老挝

7.美国

8.马来西亚(英属)

9.新加坡

10.香港(英属)

11.荷属东印度群岛(印度尼西亚)

12.帝汶岛(葡属殖民地)

13.澳大利亚沿海

14.新西兰沿海

15.缅甸

16.印度

17.英属新几内亚(巴布亚岛)

18.菲律宾

19.安达曼和尼科巴群岛(印度)

20.英属海峡殖民地(新加坡)

21.文莱(英属)

22.瑙鲁(澳大利亚)

23.关岛(美国)

24.英帕尔(印度)

25.复活岛(美国)

26.吉尔柏特及埃里斯群岛(英国)

27.圣诞岛(澳大利亚)

28.满洲

29.台湾

30.朝鲜

Their behavior was generally savage and barbaric. The Japanese were one of the most racist societies in history right up there with and possibly worse than Nazi Germany. They believed their superiority gave them to right to treat their inferiors any way they wanted and they left a swath of 10 million or more civilian bodies in their wake.

Civilians were shot, bayoneted, beheaded, mutilated, buried alive, raped in a frenzy of sadistic butchery across Asia wherever they went. Mustard gas and biological agents were used. Medical experiments were done. Pregnant women had their fetuses cut out and both left to die in pools of blood. POWs were murdered, starved, worked to death, used for bayonet practice, decapitated, and eaten.

日本军人表现得像未开化的野蛮人。当时的日本是历史上最种族主义的国家之一,甚至比纳粹德国还要恶劣。他们认为自己具有优势,可以有权随意对待比他们弱势的国家,大量的平民遭到屠杀。

在亚洲各地发生了疯狂的虐待和屠杀,平民被射杀,刺死,斩首,肢解,活埋,即使逃跑也没有用。日本人还使用芥子气和生化武器,进行人体实验。孕妇眼睁睁看着自己的胎儿被切除,血流不止而死。战俘被屠杀、饿死、苦役致死,有些被用来练习刺刀,被斩首甚至被吃掉。

The Japanese have a long history of insincere apologies. Part of the reason is the populace is protected from the facts about their WWII atrocities and are actually encouraged to think of themselves as the victims in the war. Sometimes so outrageous is this denial that there are accusations that reports of atrocities are an American attempt to cover up their own warcrimes.

If the Japanese were to genuinely regret and express this regret like the Germans did then I think they could look forward to being accepted back into the community of Asian nations. But instead their denials continue unabated so the tension persists.

在很长时段内,日本人的道歉并不真诚。部分原因是民众被避免知晓二战中他们所犯的暴行,甚至被唆使将自己视作为二战的受害者。有时候,这种否认太过离谱了,甚至有些日本人指责说,对日本二战暴行的报道其实是美国为了掩盖自己战争罪行。

如果日本人真的像德国人那样悔过,并表达这种歉意,那么我认为日本是可以被亚洲国家所重新接纳的。但日本对于战争罪行的否认仍在继续,不曾消减,所以紧张局势依然存在。

(以下是屠杀血腥图片,就不放了)

非中国人/日本人怎么看待南京大屠杀?

Craig Fechter, President (2005-present)

Craig Fechter,董事长(2005至今)

I am from California and was born and raised here. When it comes to the history of World War 2, much of the US based cirriculum is centered around the US conflict with Japan and the European conflict, both the US portion and the European portion.

Very little is taught or heard about what the Japanese inflicted upon the Chinese. While the Nazis were definitely brutal, the Japanese were literal barbarian hordes in China.

我来自加利福尼亚,在此出生成长。说到第二次世界大战的历史,大部分美国人的认知是以美国对日战争和欧洲战争为中心,

很少有人知道日本人给中国人带来的苦难。纳粹确实残忍,但在中国的日本人简直就是未开化的野蛮人。

I started to take interest in the topic about 2.5 years go when I was in Xiamen and Fuzhou, China as we were there to adopt our youngest son. I saw a world war 2 memorial in Fuzhou and just started to read about the Japanese occupation of China. After reading about the initial invasion I got to the Rape of Nanking wikipedia article. I can’t tell you how emotional I got while reading through the mass suffering of the Chinese people in Nanking! My heart ached to know that mankind could be capable of such reckless disregard for any and all human life! Babies thrown in the air and bayonted! Tens of thousands of women raped, violated and ultimately murdered! Any Chinese adult male being taken down to the river and just machine-gunned down like a dog!

我开始对这个话题感兴趣大约是在两年半前,当时我人在厦门和福州,到中国去是为了领养我们的小儿子。我在福州参观了一座二战纪念馆,才知道日本侵占过中国。在了解最初的入侵后,我找了维基百科上一篇关于南京大屠杀的文章。我无法形容我在读到南京大屠杀时是多么的难受!我急切的想知道为什么人类能对别人的生命做出如此毫不顾及的行为!婴儿被抛向空中刺死!数以千计的妇女被强奸,侵犯最终被虐杀!中国成年男子被带到河边,像狗一样被射杀!

People here just haven’t heard about it and if they have I just don’t think they understand the absolute depravity of the Japanese. Due to the fact we are a Chinese-American household, we actively celebrate elements of Chinese culture in our home. We decorate for and celebrate Chinese new year and we attempt to take part in local Chinese new year celebrations. Last year we attended a local Chinese New Year celebration where there was traditional Chinese food, elements of their culture, and the culmination was a presentation of traditional Chinese dance. The committee invited a bunch of local politicians as guests of honor and they were invited to speak prior to the event. It was a surreal moment when one of the politicians began to talk about how poorly the Japanese were treated here in the US during world war 2, as if the Chinese in attendance wanted to hear reminders of Japan and world war 2 (for a reference, the Japanese were treated poorly during world war 2 as they were forcefully interned but that treatment was quite literally nothing to how the Japanese treated the Chinese). I couldn’t believe that he would actually bring up Japan during a celebration of Chinese new year.

Quora这的人不知道这些,即使他们有了解过,我也不认为他们能认知到日本人那种彻底的恶。由于我们是一个美国人和中国人一起的家庭,我们在家积极庆祝中国传统文化。为庆祝中国新年我们还装饰房间,并尝试参加当地的中国新年庆祝活动。去年,我们参加了一个当地的中国新年庆祝活动,那有传统的中国食物,传统的中国文化,活动的高潮是一段中国传统舞蹈。委员会邀请了一群当地的政客作为荣誉嘉宾,并让他们在活动之前发言。预料不及的是其中一个政客开始谈论二战时期在美日本人遭到多么恶劣的对待,就好像中国听众想要想起日本和二战一样(作为参考,在二战期间日本人遭到的恶劣对待也只是被拘押,但和日本人对待中国人相比简直就是小巫见大巫)。我无法相信在庆祝中国新年之时这个政客竟然会提到日本。

Jacques V?n Kh?i, I am oversea Asian man

Jacques V?n Kh?i, 住在国外的亚裔

I called the massacre is terrible one.

Do you know what had costed for some small/weak countries to understand in? Because it is the brutal of human nature. And that’s how we are facing for.

Please look on this by the honest view.

China was weak. Weak those days. It was spared by the conflicts. Conflicts with the USSR, Uyghurs, Tibet, Communists. Wars happened everywhere, everytime. And no peace there. Then Japan jumped in, made the situation come worse.

And badly…

我觉得这起大屠杀太可怕了。

你知道弱小国家花了多大的代价从中得到教训?这就是残忍的人性。也正是我们现在正面对的。

从客观的角度看这起事件。

当时的中国很虚弱。因为各种矛盾而分崩离析,这些矛盾包括了苏联、GC主义。各地无时无刻不在爆发战争,毫无和平可言。然后日本人入侵了,使势态更为恶化。

太糟糕了...

Japan took the city after the Chinese force surrendered the city. Gen. Iwane Matsui could have done better by trying to prevent the massacre. However, the high order of the Imperial Japanese command in China had not allowed prisoners, instead killing all and all.

Imagine, with this type of order, would they keep their human ability?

As Japan also kept the similar racist view on other Asians, believing on Japanese supremacy, and they thought they could revive China, they slaughtered all of other people there, in order to “clean China”. This was not cleaning. This was massacre! Genocide! It was that type! This helped strengthen Chinese nationalism later, but the pains would never be forgotten.

在中国军队投降后,日本占领了这座城市。松井石根本可以通过阻止屠杀来让势态变好。然而,在中国的日本帝国军高层命令不允许有囚犯,而是全部屠杀殆尽。

想象一下,有了这种命令,日本军人能保持人性吗?

日本也对其他亚洲人持有类似的种族主义观点,他们坚信日本的霸权,认为他们可以重振中国,为了“清洁中国”,他们屠杀了那里的所有人。这不是清洁。这是屠杀!是种族灭绝!就是这样!这对后来加强中国的民族主义有所帮助,但这种痛苦永远不会被忘记。

The Nanking massacre could be understood like this:

It showed the darkest and the most horrible part of human beings.

It affected on the minds of the people in around the massacre.

For Japan those days: to demonstrate the invincible power of Japan in the name of pan-Asianism.

For China those days: it strengthened China and helped Chinese to realize who they needed to fight.

The Nanking still affects today. China uses Nanking like a reason for its power rising. Japan refuses because this is not China they need to excuse. For others, it was like Armenian tragedy, Jewish tragedy, and more…

I feel this massacre was cruel and non-human. But it should be respected for the deaths to be in peace, not for other warmongers use as an excuse of expansion and war plans.

南京大屠杀可以这样理解:

它展示了人类最黑暗和最可怕的一面。

它影响了大屠杀周围的人们的思想。

对日本来说,大屠杀是为了以泛亚洲主义的名义展示日本不可战胜的力量。

对中国来说,大屠杀使中国更加团结,让中国人意识到他们必须奋起反抗。

南京大屠杀仍然影响至今。中国利用南京大屠杀作为其崛起的一个原因。日本抵制因为这不是他们需要道歉的中国。此外,这可能也是美国人和犹太人的策略,等等。

我觉得这场大屠杀是残酷、毫无人性的。但是,对于那些为和平而牺牲的人来说,他们应该得到我们的尊重,而那些将大屠杀作为扩张和战争借口的战争贩子则不值得我们尊重。

非中国人/日本人怎么看待南京大屠杀?

M. G. Haynes, M.A. Asian Studies, University of Hawaii at Manoa (2006)

M. G. Haynes, 亚洲研究硕士,马诺阿夏威夷大学(2006)

I'd certainly never claim to speak for all "non-Chinese/Japanese" people when it comes to any subject on the planet, but I can give my thoughts as a veteran, an historian, and someone who's spent a long time living and traveling in Northeast Asia.

The Nanjing Massacre was nothing short of a horrible war crime. Imperial Japanese soldiers went on a murderous rampage, raping, torturing, and killing Chinese civilians to a degree that makes any discussion of the number of victims moot. The historian in me is convinced of the horrible facts of the event by the multiple eye-witness accounts by international and fairly impartial observers. The soldier in me is unconvinced--and a little disgusted--by post-war claims that the Japanese troops went beyond their orders. My time spent living in this part of the world tells me that the Japanese are prone to "yari-sugi" or over-doing things...all sorts of things. These three components all come together to make me believe that 1) the killing and maltreatment of civilians happened on a very large scale, beyond what could be claimed even by WWII standards as "collateral damage", 2) that this treatment was ordered by Japanese commanders on the scene, and 3) that it was an overwhelming display of terror intended to punish the Chinese for Japanese losses at Shanghai and cow them into eventual submission.

当涉及各种话题时,我绝对不会说我代表了所有的非中国/日本人,但作为一个老兵、历史学者,并且在东北亚生活旅游过很长时间的我能发表我个人的看法。

南京大屠杀是一个可怕的战争罪行。日本帝国的士兵陷入了疯狂,强奸、折磨和杀害了大量中国平民,这在一定程度上使关于受害者人数的讨论都悬而未决。通过国际公正观察者的许多事件目击记录,作为历史学者的我坚信这起事件骇人听闻。日本战后声称日本军人违反命令而发动了大屠杀,这让作为士兵的我表示怀疑——也有些恶心。我的人生经验告诉我在各种事上日本人很容易“过分”或者说走极端。

以下三个部分让我相信就是那样1)对平民的杀戮和虐待发生在非常大的范围内,甚至超过了二战所称的“附带损害”标准(注:附带损害即在发动军事行动中,对平民造成的伤害),2)大屠杀是由日本军官在现场直接指挥的,3)这是一场压倒性的恐怖活动,目的是惩罚中国人在上海对日本人造成的损伤,并胁迫其投降。

None of this is terribly insightful. What's more interesting, I think, is why there are so many Japanese who disbelieve the event happened in the first place, or believe the Chinese have inflated the numbers of an otherwise "acceptable" number of civilian casualties. While elements of cultural distrust of the Chinese in general combines with a distrust of Communist propaganda after the war, the greater issue is that the Japanese simply don't want to believe it. Specifically, that the nice old man living on the fourth floor--or better yet, the kindly Grandfather who rocks their grandchildren to sleep--could have ever perpetrated such inherently unbelievable atrocities.

以上都不是很深刻的见解。我认为更让人感兴趣的是为什么会有那么多的日本人在最初不相信发生了这起事件,或者认为中国人夸大了一个“可接受范围”的平民伤亡人数。虽然总体上日本在文化上对中国不信任,再加之战后对GC主义不信任的宣传,但更大的问题是,日本人根本就不愿意相信发生过这起事件。具体来说,就是住在四楼的那位和蔼老人——或者更亲近的,一位正在让孙子们安睡的亲切祖父,过去竟然犯下了如此磬竹难书的暴行。

Don't ever underestimate how little the Japanese people back home knew about the detailed "sausage-making" of their war with China. As well, don't underestimate the long-term effect on the human psyche of a never-ending stream of pre-war and wartime government propaganda. Add to that a general lack of desire (with a few notable, but easily dismissible exceptions) by returning soldiers to tell of their own horrible deeds. These men were ashamed--of losing the war if not their behavior while prosecuting it--and not terribly interested in telling those back home all the evil deeds they'd done. After all, they'd been assured victory and everyone knows that the victors write history and so these troops would have assumed that the ends justified the means and all those acts would be forgotten in the end anyway. And finally, don't forget that post-war Japanese didn't really want to hear it anyway, they were sick of war and warriors, blaming the destruction of their entire way of life on the militarists who'd led the emperor astray and dragged Japan into a deep abyss.

永远不要低估日本人多么不了解他们与中国战争的详细经过。同样的,也不要低估了无休止的战前和战时政府宣传对人们心理的长期影响。再加上回国的士兵普遍缺乏向人们讲述他们可怕行径的念头(有些值得注意,但很容易被无视掉)。这些人为输掉这场战争而感到羞愧。他们也不想把自己的罪行告诉自己的亲人。毕竟他们获得了胜利,每个人都知道胜利者书写历史,所以这些军队认为无论如何,所有这些行为最终都将被遗忘。最后别忘了,战后的日本人并不真的想听这些,他们厌倦了战争和军人,把他们的整个生活方式都归咎于军国主义者,认为这些军国主义者把天皇引入歧途,把日本拖进了深渊。

The most important question of all, however, is how to move beyond this incident. Japan and the US are close allies today, despite a surprise attack that dragged the US into a war it was trying to avoid, the inexcusable treatment of Allied POWs, and the dropping of two atomic bombs. Taiwans have a close relationship with the Japanese and seem to, as a political body, harbor no lasting resentment. The Thais as well, in spite of Japanese wartime atrocities committed there. Further afield, the French and Germans have a combined military unit and daily work side-by-side in NATO. Clearly, being the recipient of national-level aggression doesn't pre-suppose antagonism 70-years later.

然而,最重要的问题是如何超越这一事件。尽管日本发动突袭把美国拉入了试图避免的战争,日本对待同盟国战俘的方式也不可原谅,美国也给日本投了两颗原子弹,但今天日本和美国成为了非常亲密的盟友。作为一个政治实体,台湾与日本有着密切的关系,似乎也没了怨恨。泰国人也一样,尽管二战时日本人在那犯了暴行。在更远的地方,法国和德国组建了联合的军队,在北约里并肩作战。显然在70年后,战争的受害者并不希望发生对抗。

The crazy thing is that almost any ethnic group in the world can be considered a victim or charged with aggression. It really depends on where you draw that magical, historical line in the sand. If you draw the line in 1598, Korea is recovering from two Japanese invasions. 1281, Japan is the recipient of its second of two Mongol invasions of mostly Chinese and Korean troops. Early 1200s, the Mongols invade and subdue all of China. If you draw the line at 110 BC, China is invading Korea for the first of many, MANY times. And the list goes on and on. No ethnic group in all the world has a monopoly on aggression. Don't believe me? Look to the peaceful, chocolate and watch-making, perennially neutral Swiss . . . who once fielded the most feared troops in all of Europe.

疯狂的是,世界上几乎所有的民族都可以被认为是受害者,也可以被指控为侵略者。这取决于你截取哪段历史。如果你截取1598年这段历史,朝鲜正从日本两次的入侵中恢复过来。1281年,日本遭受了第二次蒙古入侵,这次入侵部队大部分是中国人和朝鲜人。在13世纪初期,蒙古侵略征服了全中国。如果你选择公元前110年,中国正在入侵朝鲜,这是无数次侵略朝鲜中的第一次。表单还能在列下去。世界上没有任何民族只会侵略。不相信我吗?看看那些和平的,盛产巧克力和手表,永远中立的瑞士人,他们曾拥有全欧洲最令人畏惧的军队。

While individual people may harbor a latent distrust of other cultures for any number of reasons--to include past aggression--life goes on after all and humans have throughout history proven capable of tremendous pragmatism. It seems, then, these long-term historical issues become real obstacles to progress only when somebody or some group stands to gain politically from dredging up that past. The question, when faced with such renewed calls for anger and hatred against an entire ethnic group (ANY ethnic group), should be "what does that individual/group gain from making such calls?" Answer that, and you're closer to understanding why these issues remain 70-years on.

虽然基于很对原因————包括过去遭遇到的侵略,个体可能对其他文化怀有潜在的不信任,但生命周而复始,纵观历史,人类已经被证明具有巨大的实用主义能力。因此,当某个人或某一群体通过挖掘过去来获得政治利益时,这些长期的历史问题似乎就会成为阻碍进步的真正障碍。当碰见这种死灰复燃试图唤起敌视整个民族(任何民族)的怨气和憎恶时,问题应该是“什么人/群体能从这种宣传中获利?”回答这个问题吧,你就能明白为什么这些议题能持续70年时间了。

非中国人/日本人怎么看待南京大屠杀?

Juri Nakahara, I am a Japanese who has spent some childhood in the US.

Juri Nakahara,我是日本人,童年在美国生活。

You asked me to answer this question, but I know my answer is going to disappoint you and this is an honest answer as A Japanese. 

I had been hesitating to answer after getting A2A, because I just remember the "word" Nanjing Massacre. Textbooks and education differs by generation. I am in my 30's and don't remember what I learned in junior high or high schools, and for me back then, history was just a subject that I had to pass tests, and I was just busy memorizing what happened in which year. This is just my experience and I don't know about other genetations, but I think schools focused more about telling us what happend between the US and Japan. I remember that I saw some videos about the bombing in Japan and attack on Pearl Harbor. 

你想我回答这个问题,但我的回答可能会让你失望,以下来自一个日本人的诚实回复。

在受邀之后,我一直犹豫着要不要回答,因为我只记得“南京大屠杀”这个词。每一代的教科书和教育都是不同的。我已经30多岁了,我在初中或高中学到的东西已经没有多少印象,对我来说,历史只是我必须通过测试的一个科目,我只是在忙着记忆哪一年发生了什么事。这只是我个人的经历,我不知道其他世代怎么想,但我认为,学校更关注的是告诉我们美国和日本之间发生了什么。我记得我看过一些关于日本轰炸和偷袭珍珠港的视频。

This is just what I think, but as for Japanese, only people who are interested in history know well about Nanjin Massacre.

I am a person who was wondering why Japanese government has to keep apolozing Chinese and South Korean governments.

I started using Quora several months ago and Quora users' answers are helping me learn about what Japan did.

这只是我自己的想法,但对于日本人来说,只有对历史感兴趣的人才能很好地了解南京大屠杀。

我很想知道为什么日本政府要一直向中国和韩国政府道歉。

我几个月前开始用quora,quora用户的回答让我知道了日本曾经的所作所为。

Kibler Juergen, I like to read history books, lots of them.

Kibler Juergen, 我爱看历史书,而且看过好多。

Half Salvadoran and half Austrian, world traveler, due to my work I interact a lot with Japanese and Chinese people.

Here is the thing: When you learn something from history books but your anecdotal experience contradicts what you are reading, your brain goes through a classic “W.T.F.” moment.

一半萨尔瓦多一半奥地利血统,周游世界,因为工作原因我和日本人及中国人有过交往。

恰如此言:当你从历史书中学到一些东西,但你的经验与你所读的内容相矛盾,你就会想“什么玩意儿”阿。

From all the countries that I have traveled to, be it in Europe, the Americas or Asia, nowhere have I felt more comfortable, happy and welcomed as when I am in Japan. The country and its culture is uniquely polite when dealing with foreign visitors. Hands down, IMHO, they win over the Brazilians in friendliness, over the Germans in organization and over the Brits in punctuality. Oh, and the food I can get there rivals anything I have tried in Michelin guide listed restaurants in Europe. The country seems so clean and orderly, the people so polite and refined…. Which is why, when I first learned about the Nanjing massacre, my first reaction was incredulity. “No way” I thought… “this must be some sort of Chinese propaganda”. These were my thoughts….

在我旅游过的所有国家里,包括欧洲、美国和亚洲,从来没有一个地方能像日本那样让我感觉舒适开心和受欢迎。在与外国游客打交道时,这个国家及其文化以礼待人。恕我直言,他们无疑比巴西人更友好,比德国人更有组织,比英国人更守时。而且我能在那里买到的食物,与我在欧洲的米其林餐厅所品尝的都是一样的。这个国家看起来很干净,很有秩序,人们很有礼貌,很文雅。这也是为什么当我第一次听说南京大屠杀时,我的反应是质疑。“不可能”我这样想,“这一定是某些中国人的舆论宣传”。这就是我的想法。

非中国人/日本人怎么看待南京大屠杀?

Sadly, it is true. Some grandparents of those wonderful people I know and love did some terrible things to other Asians 70+ years ago. It made me understand that famous saying about civilization being as wide an ocean but as deep as a puddle. Scratch a few inches underneath our tailor made suits and one can find our violent ape nature. I sincerely think that Japan should look back, recognize what happened and make amends.

But, do I think that that horrible event is unique? Sadly again, the answer is no. I can tell you of dozens of similar barbarities happening again and again in the last 70 years, in my backyard Latin America alone! In my home country of El Salvador entire villages with thousands of civilians were killed in a similar manner as the Nanjing Massacre, as early as the 1980s!

Thanks for reading my opinion about this sensitive subject. I hope both Japan and China can be mature enough to overcome the past.

谢谢你观看我对这个敏感话题的观点。我相信日本和中国双方能足够成熟一起克服过去。

Derrick Patterson, B.A History, Bates College (2013)

Derrick Patterson,贝兹学院历史学士(2013)

I am American. I currently live in China and I often ask Chinese people how they feel about Japan. The younger generation doesn’t seem to have any bad feelings against them, however when I ask some of the older locals they usually have a negative opinion about Japanese people.

我是美国人。我现在住在中国,我经常问中国人他们怎么看待日本人。年轻人对日本似乎没有任何负面情绪,然而当我问当地老人时,他们常常对日本人抱有负面看法。

The Nanjing Massacre was a clear example of how dark WWII was. Think about everything that occurred. The Nanjing Massacre, the Holocaust, the genocides in Ethiopia, Pearl Harbor, etc. Innocent people dying for a war they necessarily did not want to be involved in. Japan committed war crime after war crime, viewing Chinese people as animals instead of human beings. Holding up babies with bayonets, having competitions of who could behead the most villagers, taking photos with the deceased. It was nothing short of sick and should forever be a dark chapter in Japan’s history.

南京大屠杀是个明显的例子,印证了二战是多么的黑暗。想想看发生的每件事。南京大屠杀,犹太人大屠杀,埃塞俄比亚的种族灭绝,珍珠港事件,等等。无辜的人们为了一场他们本不愿意卷入其中的战争而死。日本在战争中接二连三的犯下罪行,把中国人当作动物而不是人对待。用刺刀刺死婴儿,比赛谁杀的平民最多,和受害者合影留念。这简直就是病态,应该永远成为日本历史上黑暗的一章。

People all over the world should never forget the horrors that took place during World War II. The Raping of Nanjing was a senseless act and should serve as a reminder that war should never be the answer.

全世界的人们绝不会忘记在二战期间发生的这场恐惧。南京大屠杀是愚蠢的行为,应该不断提醒我们:战争永远不应该成为答案。

David Grason

David Grason

There is an interesting, and I’m sure a somewhat romanticized, movie on Netflix called “The Flowers of War” that deals with the Rape of Nanking. It’s worth watching.

I declared an Asian Studies minor when doing my undergrad work at the university. My professor was married to a Japanese woman, spoke Japanese at a high level of proficiency and had lived in Japan for a number of years. When we studied the Nanking massacre in class, you could clearly see that he would have preferred to teach only the Japanese point of view on that matter. But his own professionalism and ethics would not allow it and so, he taught as close to an unbiased version of events as possible. He made no bones about this really happening although the Japanese themselves, refuse to admit it. They claim it’s all Chinese propaganda.

这个问题让人感兴趣,我确信阿飞公司的电影“战争之花”(注:即《金陵十三钗》)在描述南京大屠杀时存在理想化。但这部电影仍值得观看。

我在读大学本科时,报名过一次亚洲研究辅修。我的教授娶了一位日本女人,他的日语口语水平很高,在日本生活了好几年。当我们在课堂上研究南京大屠杀时,你可以清楚地意识到,他应该更愿意教授日本人对这件事的看法。但他的专业精神和道德规范不允许他这样做,因此,他尽可能地将事件的公正版本教给我们。尽管日本人拒绝承认大屠杀,但教授并没有对此有所顾忌。而日本人声称南京大屠杀是中国人的舆论宣传。

The fact is that it DID happen and it was a horrible atrocity rivaling many of the other atrocities commited during War 2.

As for my own feelings, I have to say that I don’t like studying it because it brings me down emotionally. It was a very sad event during a very sad time and the Chinese suffered terribly then.

But, on the other hand, I think it speaks volumes for the spirit of the Chinese people. I have the very highest respect for the Chinese people of Nanking and for the suffering they endured during that time. And this meshes very well with another influencial man in my own live and HIS feelings about the Chinese people.

事实是,大屠杀确实发生过,这是一场可怕的暴行,与二战期间发生的许多其他暴行一样。

至于我个人的看法,我不得不说,我不喜欢研究这个事件,因为它给我带来了负面情绪。这是一起非常凄惨的事件,发生在一个非常悲惨的年代,中国人当时非常悲痛。

但是,另一方面,我认为这充分体现了中国人民的精神。我对住在南京的中国人民和他们在那段时间能忍受苦难的意志力表达最高的敬意。这种敬意与我生活中一个对我影响深远的人以及他对中国人民的感情有关。

非中国人/日本人怎么看待南京大屠杀?

This man was a pilot with the Flying Tigers during War 2. He was a neighbor when I was a kid and was a customer of mine on my newspaper route. He used to tell me all about how the Japanese would bomb their airfield near Kunming. The Chinese would repair the runways and rebuild their quarters and other buildings in record time - and all of it by hand. And they would actually get everything rebuilt faster than the Japanese could bomb it to destructino. There were thousands of workers and they would literally repave the bombed out runway’s bomb craters with gravel and tung oil carried in on the backs of thousands of workers carrying baskets. The Flying Tigers, according to my neighbor, never missed a mission and were never delayed thanks to the efforts of all those Chinese workers.

So THAT is my impression of the Chinese.

这个人是二战期间飞虎队的飞行员。当我还是个孩子的时候,他是我的邻居,是我的送报纸客户。他过去常常告诉我日本人是如何轰炸昆明附近的机场的。中国人在有限的时间内修复跑道,重建他们的住处和其他建筑,所有这些都是手工进行的。他们重建的速度远比日本人轰炸的速度快。那里有成千上万的工人,他们用框背着沙砾和桐油逐个铺好跑道上被炸出来的弹坑。据我的邻居说,由于中国工人的努力,飞虎队从来没有错过一次任务,也没有被延迟过。

这就是我对中国人的印象。

Taiki Fujimoto, Had been Travelling to China 2 times, 2013 and 2016

Taiki Fujimoto, 在2013和2016年两次到中国旅游

The Nanking Massacre is one of the most terrible thing that Japan did. It can be seen from this why China still demand an apology from Japan for this.

This heinous act is evil and unbelieveable. Raping thousands of women and little girls, mass decapitating, and mass killing until a death toll of 300,000 only to dermolize the Chinese is really unforgivable. I hope Japan apologize and give aid to the victim’s families.

During my visit to China, I also prayed at the Nanking Memorial, making some Chinese watch in surprise. After having some conversation with them, and told them about my view. In response, they jokingly told me that I must run for Prime Minister.

I hope our government apologizes so that a better China - Japan relations awaits in the future.

南京大屠杀是日本曾经犯下的最为糟糕的罪行之一。从这一点可以看出,为什么中国仍然要求日本为此道歉。

这一暴行是邪恶和令人发指的。成千上万的妇女和小女孩被强奸,大规模斩首,大规模屠杀,遇难人数达到了30万人,就只是为了挫败中国人,这不可原谅。我希望日本能够道歉并且给予受难家庭补助。

在我访问中国期间,我还在南京纪念馆祈祷,让一些中国人大吃一惊。在和他们交谈之后,我告诉他们我的想法。作为回应,他们开玩笑地说让我去竞选首相。

我希望我们的政府为将来更好的中日关系而道歉。

Ben Jackson

Ben Jackson

I’ve lived in both countries.

Most of the evidence points to it being a vile massacre, absolutely inhuman killing and murder. There are points to consider though:

There has been gross misrepresentation of the incident by BOTH sides. On the Japanese side there are still some who claim only a few thousand were killed, and that these were soldiers dressing as locals. This is contradicted by eye-witness testimonies from former Japanese soldiers who were there, and other eye-witness accounts by Europeans, not to mention local Chinese.

On the Chinese side, the number of dead has been vastly inflated. Claims of 300,000+ are ridiculous as the population of Nanjing at the time was only 240,000, not everyone in the city was killed, and some managed to flee. The true number most probably lies somewhere nearer to 150,000. That’s not to excuse it - it was still a horrific massacre.

我在两个国家都生活过。

大多数证据表明这是一场邪恶的大屠杀,绝对不人道的杀戮。然而仍有一些值得思考。

双方都对这一事件有严重的误解。在日本方面,仍有一些人声称只有几千人被杀,而且都是装扮成当地人的士兵。这与当时在场的日本士兵的目击证词相矛盾,也与欧洲人的目击证据相矛盾,更不用提当地的中国人了。

在中国方面,死亡人数被大大夸大了。30多万的说法是荒谬的,因为当时南京的人口只有24万,并不是每个人都被杀了,还有一些人设法逃离了。真正的数字可能接近15万人。我并不是为日本人申辩——这仍然是一场可怕的大屠杀。

It’s also likely that some of the photos of the massacre are fake or do not show what they purport to show. One famous beheading photo used in propaganda is now generally accepted to be a Chinese soldier beheading someone. Others are from different incidents in the war, but are now used in Nanjing propaganda.

也有可能是一些大屠杀的照片是假的,或者没有显示出他们想要展示的东西。在宣传中使用的一幅著名的斩首照片现在被普遍认为是一名中国士兵在斩首某人。其他照片来自于战争中的其他事件,但都被用来作为南京大屠杀的宣传照片。

There are several books on the subject, Iris Chang’s of course, and a few on the Japanese culture and mindset at the time though I’m blanking on the titles. Basically the Japanese were working under a ‘living god’, and it was drilled into them that their own lives were utterly worthless in the service of the Emperor, so they often had no qualms about laying down their lives for the sake of Japan. If you put yourself in that mindset where your own life is worth as little as that of an ant, what are the lives of your enemies worth? Non-Japanese had zero value in their eyes. This led to horrendous dehumanising behaviour.

这有几本关于这个主题的书,当然包括张纯如的著作,也有一些关于日本文化和心理的书,但我对这些书的标题记不太清楚了。基本上日本人是在“活着的上帝”控制下工作的,他们被灌输在服侍天皇的过程中他们是卑微的,因此,为了日本的利益,他们常常毫不犹豫地舍弃自己的生命。如果你自己的生命价值就和蚂蚁一样,那么敌人的生命又能值多少钱呢?在他们眼里,非日本人没有价值。这导致了这场可怕的不人道行为。

What I obxt to is continued hatred of [modern day] Japan. Japan is an immensely civil and peaceful country - even the right-wing revisionist Abe can’t change that - and the people are the most kind, sweet and gentle people I’ve ever met. Modern-day Japanese should not be resented or blamed for the sins of their dead great-grandfathers. There’s a strong argument for the Japanese education system to be changed to acknowledge the worst of the atrocities of the past, but again the current youth of Japan are blameless, and in terms of threats to the region’s security Japan are way further down the list than some of their neighbours.

我反对的是对现代日本的持续仇恨。日本是一个十分文明以及和平的国家,即使是右翼修正主义者安倍也无法改变。日本人是我见过的最和善、友爱、温和的群体。当今的日本不应该为他们早已离世祖辈的罪行而受怨恨和谴责。对于日本的教育体系来说,已经明确承认过去的暴行是最糟糕的,但日本的年轻人不应该受到指责,就对该地区安全的威胁而言,日本比他的一些邻国要低得多。

Can Japanese non-combatants of the time even be blamed? Apparently the sport of beheading was reported in some newspapers in Japan at the time, but can you blame an indoctrinated housewife sat at home reading the newspaper for a massacre in a foreign country perpetrated by her countrymen? I don’t think so. Some people celebrate the atomic bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki because ‘Japan had it coming to them’ for their own crimes, but two wrongs don’t make a right: just because 100,000+ innocents died in Nanjing does not make it a cause for celebration that another 100,000+ innocent civilians died in Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

日本平民需要受到指责吗?很明显,当时日本的一些报纸报道了斩首运动,但是,你能责怪一个被洗脑的家庭主妇坐在家里看报纸,就因为她的同胞在国外犯下了大屠杀吗?我不这样认为。有些人庆祝广岛和长崎的核爆,因为“日本罪有应得”,但两次做错还是不能等同于做对了:仅仅因为在南京有10万多无辜平民被杀害并不能成为欢庆广岛和长崎又有10万多无辜平民死亡的理由。

The people who committed the Nanjing Massacre did awful, inhuman things, but they’re all dead. I know the anger runs deep (and is continuously stirred up by the government of China) but who is left to blame? A few old idiot revisionists.

那些犯下南京大屠杀的人做了可怕的、非人道的事情,但他们都死了。我知道愤怒是根深蒂固的(中国政府一直在煽动),但谁又该为此负责呢?一些白痴的修正主义者罢了。

Hua Ailin, IR expert, thesis on China's shifting intl. Strategy

Hua Ailin, 红外专家,研究中国正在转变的国际战略

I’m not Japanese or Chinese, but have lived in both countries and am familiar with both narratives (or lack thereof) regarding the Sino-Japanese war and WWII.

Frankly, knowing about things like that makes me wonder how both countries could ever be friends or work together in any way. Though it’s true that there’s at times some social tension (particularly on the Chinese side), it’s surprising that that their economies are so intertwined. And it’s also surprising that there isn’t even more hostility towards Japan considering that as far as I’m aware, the Nanjing massacre is not particularly high lighted in Japanese text books.

The only reason why so many countries are ok with Germany now is because they’ve made a big point of not hiding their past and are very apologetic about it.

That’s just my two cents.

我不是日本人,也不是中国人,但在这两个国家都生活过,对中日战争和二战的记述都很熟悉。

坦率地说,知道这事件后我很想知道,这两个国家怎么可能成为朋友进行合作。尽管有时会有一些社会关系紧张(尤其是在中国方面),但令人惊讶的是,两个国家的经济是如此紧密地交织在一起。同样令人惊讶的是,中国对日本没有采取我以为的更多敌意,南京大屠杀在日本教科书中并没有被特别强调。

现在很多国家对德国的看法很积极,唯一原因是他们已经彻底的认识到,那就是不再隐瞒他们的过去,并对此表示歉意。

这只是我的看法。

Scarlett Mitchell, Professional Artist

Scarlett Mitchell, 职业艺术家

I am an American. I have never been to Asia.

I have no bias to either country, other than a love of both cultures. Or I didn’t, until I learned about this.

The massacre, aptly named “The Rape of Nanjing” has been called a genocide because it was a slaughter of civilians without any reason–The city had already been captured.

And not many, but still too many, Japanese people are literally denying any such “conflict”. Everyone else just calls it an exaggeration or demands “proof”. Some of the Japanese do acknowledge it.

我是美国人,从没去过亚洲。

我对这两个国家不抱有偏见,反而对双方文化都很有爱。直到我了解到了南京大屠杀,我就变了。

这场大屠杀叫作“南京大屠杀”,因为没有任何理由(南京城已经被占领了)的屠杀平民,也被称为“种族灭绝”。

虽然不是很多,但也存在很大数量的日本人实际上在否认这场“冲突”。其他人认为这夸张化了,或者要求“证据”。一些日本人确实承认大屠杀。

You know how, in the Western world, Holocaust deniers cause disgust in the regular population? This is like if the entire country of Germany continued to deny the Holocaust, or called it an exaggeration.

But like, there are also photographs of young corpses with bayonets sticking out of vaginas littered across the city. Women and little girls were systematically raped, household by household, and then murdered. Children's genitals were sliced open to make rape easier for the Japanese soldiers. A pregnant woman was resisting rape, so she was disemboweled, fetus removed, then raped after death. This is all eyewitness accounts by locals and foreigners, film, photographic, primary source evidence.

你知道吗,在西方世界,否认大屠杀的人会引起一般民众厌恶吗?这就好比是整个德国继续否认犹太人大屠杀,或者认为屠杀被夸大了。

这里就有一些照片,照片上是年轻的女性尸体,被刺穿阴道随意丢弃在城市中。妇女和小女孩被有组织地强奸,整户整户地被屠杀。儿童的生殖器被切开,使日本士兵更容易强奸。一位孕妇反抗强奸,所以她被开膛破腹,胎儿被切除,然后被奸尸。这些描述都来自当地和外国目击者、电影、摄影、第一手证据。

It still happened. And more people in Western countries should learn about it. Why not, just because it didn't happen to us? What about Rwanda? What about the Balkans, Cambodia? The famines in the USSR?

My opinion of Japan has changed drastically. Before, since we fucking nuclear attacked them and somehow have a good relationship now, I respected what I considered a modern and free country. But this totally changed my mind.

I still have no hard feelings toward Japanese people, since obviously it's not their fault, and just like the rest of Asia, I can't live without Japanese shit.

Edit 2: Stop trying to invalidate my answer because I'm American and “not aware of our own mistakes”. You are making that shit up- I do know what we've done. This question is not about America, so sit the fuck down. I'm unenthusiastically American. And I'm sick of my nationality being used to cheapen what I think about the Nanjing Massacre.

屠杀依旧在发生。西方国家更多人应该了解这一点。为什么不去了解,就因为大屠杀没有发生在我们身上?卢旺达知道吗?巴尔干半岛知道吗?苏联饥荒知道吗?

我对日本的看法发生了巨大变化。因为以前我们该死的核弹攻击了他们,现在两国有了一段友好关系,所以我敬重日本视其为现代自由国家。但这件事彻底改变了我的看法。

我对日本民众并没有什么负面情感,因为很明显这不是他们的错,就像亚洲其他国家一样,我离不开日本。

编辑:不要因为我是美国人,还“不知道自己的错误”,就否定我的回复。你们在扯些什么,我知道我们美国人干了什么。但这个问题不是问美国,所以给我他妈的闭嘴。我是个冷静的美国人。别拿我的国籍问题来否定我对南京大屠杀的看法。

Guillaume Aubian, studied at école Normale Supérieure De Paris

Guillaume Aubian, 就读于巴黎高等师范学校

I’ve searched what was Nanjing Massacre after reading this question, and this is really fucked up : this is like a genocide for free, without any interest in doing so except for crude barbary…

That being said, I had absolutely no idea this existed, and I’m pretty sure it’s true for most French people, and I’d bet that’s also true for most people in western Europe.

我在看到这个问题后,搜索了南京大屠杀,太糟糕了:这就像一场随意的种族灭绝,除了野蛮的巴巴里海盗谁会有兴趣这么干呢...

话虽如此,我之前完全不知道南京大屠杀的存在,我敢肯定这适用于大多数法国人,我敢打赌,对大多数西欧人来说也是如此。

We are taught in school how things went in western Europe during world war 2, USSR and USA are also extensively discussed. But Asia is mainly ignored, except for Pearl Harbor and Hiroshima/Nagasaki. I knew Japan attacked China during WWII, but that wasn’t from school, and I didn’t even know that was so gruesome.

So, to answer this question : in Europe, I think most non-Chinese/Japanese people simply have no idea this massacre happened.

我们在学校里学的是在第二次世界大战期间西欧的态势,苏联和美国也得到了广泛的讨论。但除了珍珠港和广岛和长崎外,亚洲基本上被忽略了。我知道日本在二战期间袭击了中国,但这不是学校学的,我甚至不知道这会是多么可怕。

因此,对这个问题的答复:在欧洲,我认为大多数非中国人/日本人根本不知道这场大屠杀。

本文来源:https://www.quora.com

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18条评论

  • 我不会让你看见我流泪

    变态小日本。风水轮流转,下一回,直接干沉日本列岛。没有血腥,只有废墟。

  • 笑你戴德绿帽子

    里面只有唯一一个美国人说出了现代亚洲人不原谅日本的原因,也就是中国人的痛苦所在,那么多的人说一千道一万,要求中国人原谅或者遗忘,却从来不理解现代中国人的痛苦所在,也从不审视现代日本的所作所为,只会一句,现代的日本人是无辜的。至于那些先谴责一番然后圣母,或者先谴责一番然后洗地的人,还有一些自相矛盾的一边说现代日本人不承认一边说现代日本人无辜,呵呵。里面还有一个华裔,如果我没理解错,口上说着理解中国人,实际上只是想重复对于都是CCP的敌意,这种人,呵。 打出这段话的时候我的心情是平静的,以前我看到国外对日本的洗地甚至圣母言辞我会感到愤怒,这一次不知为何就很平静的看了。即使我知道里面有些答题的人是有着善意的,但我也是一种很平静的心态。

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